Gibson Thunderbird

Live at the Glastonbury festival 26/5/05 - photo Lauren Large

FlyGuitars Your main stage bass is one you've being playing since 1972; an early 1960s Thunderbird IV that you initially borrowed from Pete (Overend) Watts. Presumably he had got a few of the Thunderbirds kicking around at that time?

Martin Turner Yeah. We had been out on the road with Mott The Hoople, we supported them on their first headline tour you know when All The Young Dudes was a big hit. Great tour. Got on brilliantly with them particularly Mick Ralphs, Peter and Buffin the drummer, I didn't get to know Ian (Hunter) so well. They were a brilliant bunch of guys, were really good to us, and the bands I think complimented each other really well. When I rang Peter Watts up and said I need to borrow an instrument he was like 'yeah sure, come round'. He did however give me this dog of a Thunderbird that he'd smashed to bits. I think it was in 13 separate pieces and the road crew had glued it back together on the road. After about a week I rang him up and I said 'Pete, you're a', I won't repeat the exact expression, and he said 'What da you mean?' and I said 'the bloody way you've treated this instrument, it's a disgrace. It's a great old machine and it's as pissed as a rat because it's been so badly abused. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna buy it off you and get it sorted out.' And he's like 'Oh I don't wanna sell it, you know I just lent it to you' and I said 'well that's a pity cause I was just about to drive over to your flat with a fistful of nice crisp, new, smelly bank notes'. I knew because I'd been talking to Mick Ralphs he was quite hard up at the time so of course he said 'oh really um, ah alright well why don't you come over and you know we'll have a cup of tea and talk about it.' So I went round there and chucked the money on the table. He was fine, he had quite a few of them anyway and it was very sweet of him, very generous of him. Away I went and I had to get it rebuilt then.

FlyGuitars You've had the headstock rebuilt effectively?

Martin Turner Yeah the headstock was made from scratch and grafted in to the neck. Not an ideal situation but I have to say that that was done over 30 years ago and it's been as solid as a rock. You can see the join but I've still got the original headstock at home to prove that the serial number is legit. If you were hung up on that or you wanted the instrument to be worth maximum value then it wouldn't be the instrument for you but I wanted it for gigging, it's a tool to use and absolutely fine.

Left: This 1973 picture of Martin Turner shows the Thunderbird IV before it's refinish. Notice the unfinished replacement headstock and extra pot from the stereo wiring (see below). Right: Today the join of the new headstock is clearly visible under the refinished paintwork.

FlyGuitars So the bass has been refinished to it's current colour? I've got with me one of the Wishbone Ash albums Live Dates (looking at the inside of the gatefold cover), is that it's original colour there. It's got the extra pot where the hole is on your current Thunderbird, in the cavity.

Martin Turner It could well be, that might be the instrument. One of the crew wired it so we could split the pickups to two separate amps. I use like a dual amplifier system, the low end is separated from the high end and I think the concept was that we would obviously use the bridge pickup for the high end and the neck pickup for the low end. I didn't like it. In practice it didn't work for me so what I've always done actually is I've always switched the bridge pickup off completely and just used the neck pickup. I've got a two pickup instrument but I'm only using one pickup.

Martin's early 60s Thunderbird IV -circa 2006 - notice the Badass bridge (with original post holes showing to either side), and extra pot hole just to the right of the volume pot - see text - photo Graham Fieldhouse

FlyGuitars You still use that dual sound now where you split out in to two amps?

Martin Turner Yeah. The reason being that I want the low end to stay clean and solid and I want the high end or mid range you'd probably call it to be able to drive it quite hard and make it grunt a bit, make it snarl!

FlyGuitars How do you find access up to the high frets cause obviously you move around the fretboard quite a bit?

Martin Turner It could be better, there have been a couple of times when we've got a new tune and I'll want to get up really high where I've thought I must go down the shed and fish out me Black and Decker Jigsaw, take that little section out you know but I mean. I've seen a Thunderbird on Ebay like that, it's been on their for like six months. Nobody's going to touch it with a barge pole.

FlyGuitars Not at that price

Martin Turner I even thought about buying it because the guy obviously couldn't sell it. I bet you it's fine but it's certainly got access.

FlyGuitars It's got different pickups in it though

Martin Turner Yeah, that I object to you know but being able to get up? but you ruin the aesthetics of it then and it becomes a different instrument so I'll happily stay with it as it is. If I really need to get up high for recording I'll either play it on another instrument or there is a way where you kind of play it overhand sort of hammer on.

FlyGuitars You only use the neck pickup on the Thunderbird, how do you use the volume and tone settings? Do you adjust for different songs or do you have a standard setting?

Martin Turner Only a little bit not a whole lot. I back off the volume in a couple of quietish pieces mainly to not drown out other instruments, acoustic guitar that we use now and again. Likewise the tone, I back off just to get a duller sound and I'll quite often mute the strings with the side of my right hand as I'm playing so that it becomes more of a dull thud type sound rather than ringy/twangy sound. It's quite difficult to get all that expression from one instrument but you can if you put an effort in to it.

FlyGuitars Do you tend to play more towards the bridge?

Martin Turner Well one of the reasons I don't use the treble pickup is because I tend to play right on top of the treble pickup so it just gets really nasty/clicky sounding if your using a pick, so yeah I'm usually there. Occasionally I'll go up more towards the neck to mellow it out, on other occasions I get down tight on the bridge to get it thin and spitting nails out the speakers, razor blades even.

Hamer Explorer

FlyGuitars As well as your white 60s Thunderbird, you also have a custom-built Hamer with Thunderbird pickups. Tell us about that.

Martin Turner We knew Paul Hamer and his partner Joel when they were second hand guitar dealers. I wish I'd brought some of them instruments they used to bring down to the gigs in the early seventies, fantastic. An assortment of 1960s Fenders and Gibsons, I wish I'd brought all of them but I didn't. They finally announced that they were going to be making guitars because they were starting the Hamer Guitar Company, was there anything we needed. I said yeah can you do me an Explorer bass, I've got a couple of Thunderbird pickups from the factory. We had gone to Gibson in Kalamazoo when we were passing through and I bought a couple of replacement pickups, they were probably genuine 60s pickups, they'd been there for a while and that's what we fitted on it. Now although I used that for years and it's a good sounding instrument when I got back on the road this time I just wanted to stick with the Thunderbird keep it simple.

Martin Turner and his custom built Hamer bass, appearing on the cover of the November 1978 issue of British music magazine Beat Instrumental

Playing live with his 1990s Orville set-neck Thunderbird

FlyGuitars You have used the Hamer though for a few gigs though have you?

Martin Turner I did try it yeah, there are just a few little things about it that it was too different to the Thunderbird. I just want the same instrument so that I don't have to think about stuff too much. I mean it's got stuff like the volume and tone pots are all wired back to front. The tuning pegs on it go the opposite way to what the Thunderbirds do so it does your brain in you know. So I thought right, two Thunderbirds has got to be the way it goes. Started looking at the 76 Bicentennial reissue and obviously I've looked at original sixties instruments as well and they go for silly money 3, 4, 5, 6,000 bucks and it's not that I'm a cheap skate but I know the instruments going to see a lot of action and going to get beaten up on the road. That kind of money, you're investing in something that you want to maintain it's value and you know it's going to get trashed. I tinkered around in music shops on the Epiphone version which is a couple of hundred quid and it's brilliant, how they put them together for that money I do not know, it's fantastic. I even brought one or acquired it somewhere but I couldn't get happy with it, a bolt on neck for me is a major no, no, it doesn't have the same sustain you know, it is not a cricket bat with wings. It's a whole different beast like a Fender. Although it felt very similar it wasn't ok. I gave it to a young lad who I know who is starting out, he loves it he gets on fantastic with it. Then I had to find the guitar for me either an old 60s instrument that's thousands of bucks or else there's Epiphone reissue a couple of hundred quid, nothing in between until I discovered Orville. And I'm like what the hell is this Orville, I mean wasn't that the name of that beaky bird that some comedian dude used to perform with? I thought it was a bit of a Noddy name therefore it must be a Noddy instrument. Then I discovered that actually it was Gibson made under licence in Japan for the Japanese market and the only reason they had to change the name to Orville is because someone was already using Gibson and there was a trademark dispute and I don't want to get in to that one right now cause Wishbone Ash... So it ended up being called Orville which was Mr Gibson's Christian name and it's funny it's just not the same that it's called Orville. I'd never actually got hold of one but I'd spoken to a few people especially in the States about them and everyone assured me they're pretty damn good instruments so I saw a guy in Scotland with one for sale on Ebay and nobody was bidding for it, I think it went at 5 or 600 quid and I bought it from him. I didn't know what it would be like when it arrived, it was a little bit messy, I had to clean it up a bit.

FlyGuitars Did he know it was going to you?

Martin Turner Oh yeah, I told him it was coming to Martin Wishbone. I adjusted the pickups, got the action checked out, the intonation, usual stuff. I wanted to put heavy gauge strings on it and the pickups are in the ballpark not quite the same. They don't quite have the volume and punch of the old ones but they're very very close. The bridge I'm not in love with, I mean let's face it the original design on the 60s instrument was naff. This one I've kind of got cosy with it, it's because I rest my hand on it when I do the muted string business and I'm ok with it but I would prefer to fit it with a Badass bridge.

FlyGuitars Like you've got on your Gibson?

Martin Turner Yeah, which is sacrilege but I've done it and I get on great with that. The only other difference is that it does not have pickup surrounds, which I would prefer it did and also the wood is a little bit lighter cause it slightly less dense being much more modern timber. I immediately had to remove the Orville thing over the truss rod adjuster because to me it is a Gibson. I mean the only difference between the cricket bat with wings is that It's a set neck, which is a perfectly reasonable compromise.

FlyGuitars A lot of people prefer set necks to through necks, there's a whole wide debate on the two but looking at it compared to your Gibson it's a well made instrument and aesthetically it looks good, it looks like a Gibson.

Martin Turner When I put it on, before I played a note it felt the same, slightly lighter. Now I reckon if I put a Badass bridge on there, that is a beefy lump of brass it's quite heavy, that would probably help it a bit more. I'm pretty happy with it.

FlyGuitars Have you tried the modern Thunderbirds?

Martin Turner The Teflon ones I call them. Oh man what can I say, they're probably great, guys who started out playing one of them probably defend them to the hilt. I just can't get comfortable with the black Teflon business and the modern tuning pegs, I love those old blackberry type chrome things. I have to be honest with you, I've only ever picked them up and given them a try and they just feel too modern somehow. I'm being a bit snobby now maybe I don't know, maybe it's just better the devil you know. I don't know what my reason or feeling is, I can't explain what it is but I just prefer the feel of the old ones which that Orville is based on.

Other Gibson basses / Rickenbacker 4001

FlyGuitars So around the first albums you were experimenting, did you ever try any other Gibson basses around that time at all?

Martin Turner I tried, is it called an EB-O? Hated the bloody thing to put it in a nutshell, the balance of it. I had a friend who had one and I didn't like it at all. The scale is different and it's got a mushy sound. A Gibson Thunderbird's got a mushy sound if you play it with your fingers but you know the minute I picked that instrument up it just felt right for me. In fact compared with playing the Rickenbacker which I'm still real fond of, you play the Rickenbacker bass and it's like making love to a girl, you get hold of that thing, the Thunderbird it's like making love to a woman, you've got to get hold of it by the scruff of the neck and it's a big beast you know like a Viking long ship we used to call it. On stage for me that's what it's got to be, it feels like part of my body. The whole balance of it, everything about it and I've often thought when I do eventually go up to the big gig in the sky maybe I should take that with me cause I don't think it's much good for anyone else. It's such a dog of an instrument.

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